Pedro Serrano (PS): I’m “The Old Man” in the (Punk Rock) scene and when I start talking I have these kids standing around and listening to the stories about the scene. The only “problem” is that there straight punk rockers and skinheads. And my being a Gay man it’s been a challenge to have that role of the elder to pass that (Gay history) on in the Gay communities.



David Carter (DC): Hmmm, yes. Well I have a couple of ideas to throw out. I don’t think it’ll amount to anything. (Laughs)



PS: Well if we tell people to get a pen and paper and write this down…Go ahead.



DC: Well, it seems to me that we under-utilize some resources that are available to us. One story I tell in the book (Stonewall: The riot that sparked the Gay revolution) is how, the bar scene wanted to keep Gays quite, happy, and ignorant, because the more ignorant you are the easier you are to control. So it was a fight the Gay Liberation Front took on, to go to Gay bars and to say, “You have to let us leave our news papers here, and you have to let us leave information here.”



PS: They had to fight for that.



DC: They had to fight for that! People today take it for granted but they wouldn't even distribute this stuff from under the counter. That’s how bad it was.
And to this day , like it or not, it’s a reality, probably our main social institution today are bars. Now let me tell you a story. When Mathew Shepard died an activist I know went to every Gay business on Christopher St. You know we had the Mathew Shepard funeral; the protest against his death and so forth. This person carried posters to every Gay business on Christopher St. Not one of them would put it in the window.



PS: Tell it brother!



DC: One of them agreed to put it on a side door entrance. But not one would put it in the window. That includes Gay bars and every other Gay business on Christopher St.



PS: Now that’s a downer!



DC: To put it mildly.



PS: Him getting killed, that’s depressing.
Who wants to see that when there going into a bar!



DC: (laughs) Oh I see, I thought you meant because they wouldn't put it in the window.



PS: Oh yea! That’s a downer too now that you mention it, yea. And it says a lot.



DC: It says a world. It’s an irony that
because of the success of the Gay movement we’ve created this sort of culture that is so consumerist.
And I notice when I go into Gay bars that they would usually have essentially the publications that publicize Gay bars: HX, NEXT..., you know. I’m not saying they don’t provide a service to the community, they do. But when I was an organizer in Madison WI., we used Gay bars for organizing honey! We asked people to donate money to us, we had information for writing to there legislator, voter registration drives. But since I’ve been in New York City, it’s 21 years now, I have yet to enter a bar and see a table of political activists. I think what should happen...Now I have a theory. This is my grand vision.



PS: Well this is the place. Out-FM is the place for the grand vision!



DC: (Laughs) It seems to me that what we should do is try to have a program that would encourage people to go to Gay bars to give back to the movement. And I would say you’re going to give back 1% or 5% of your door or your drinks or something back to the Gay community. And you would have to provide access to us, at least once a week. And you would have to provide access all the time for our publications, our hand outs. And then create some kind of foundation that would receive these funds and distribute them. You would have to have it well audited so there’s no scandal and really represent the community. And then bars that did that would get a sticker just like they have these stickers in the window that says that music that is played here are reported to those why pay royalties for music. Then have the stickers to encourage people to go to those bars.
And using such an outline as what we’ve done in our past with GA and GLF, they would be willing to do that.

Another institution that is wide spread, ubiquitous you could say now is the commemoration of Stonewall. Which most people don’t know that’s what were doing. Were commemorating the Stonewall riots.

Folks! HELLO OUT THERE! Why are you marching in June?! Darlings! (Laughs). I’ve thought about this a lot. Craig Rodwell who had the idea for creating what it now called Gay Pride; it was originally called Christopher St., Liberation.

He did talk about it as a tool for increasing political awareness and political activism, but also as a Gay holiday, as a carnival. But the problem I see is 99.5% carnival and holiday and half of 1% activism. And OK, it’s great to have a Gay carnival, as if The Academy Awards and Halloween are not enough. But when we have so far to go still to achieve our rights I feel that the Pride observations nation wide and across the world should be geared towards education and activism. As I understand it in Europe I’m told, when ever they have a big public demonstration there’s a manifesto published; “this march is in support of these goals.” and you’d have to say you support those in order to march.

I think there should be a statement put out for Gay Pride marches saying “This march is in support of these things…” for example Gay marriage, or more funding for AIDS. And you’d have to sign a statement saying you support those goals or your ass is not allowed on the march. And then if you betray that, by your actions; if a politician doesn’t support Gay marriage, they should not be allowed to march! And it’s ridiculous. They should not allow these politicians to join in after Saint Patrick's Cathedral. To me that is a great act of disrespect to our history and our community and people. That should not be allowed. It’s a very simple concept to say this year we want to emphasize Gay marriage or this year we want to emphasize passing an anti-discrimination bill. And say, “You can’t march unless you support this and if by your actions past or future don’t show that, then we’re not going to allow you to march unless you renounce it.” or “Oh you said last year you were going to support this bill and then you didn’t. OK you can’t march this year.”
So there are two I ideas I think that we can use existing institutions more effectively.




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